#151 Add Diagramming Software Alternatives

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opened 8 months ago by n · 4 comments
n commented 8 months ago
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Alternatives for software like Lucidchart:

Alternatives for software like Lucidchart: - [diagrams.net](https://www.diagrams.net/)
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label 8 months ago

diagrams.net is a CloudFlare site and would be a pernicious endorsement. Problems with CF sites listed here.

diagrams.net is a CloudFlare site and would be a pernicious endorsement. Problems with CF sites [listed here](https://codeberg.org/swiso/website/issues/141).
Collaborator

Then again: Reasons they moved away from the draw.io domain and it can be self-hosted. The latter should be enough for us to recommend the software, even if not the service.

Then again: [Reasons they moved away from the draw.io domain](https://www.diagrams.net/blog/move-diagrams-net) and [it can be self-hosted](https://github.com/jgraph/drawio). The latter should be enough for us to recommend the software, even if not the service.
n commented 8 months ago
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Also, it is a client-side web app so you can use the desktop application or even the Nextcloud app.

Also, it is a client-side web app so you can use [the desktop application](http://get.diagrams.net/) or even [the Nextcloud app](https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/drawio).

Also, it is a client-side web app so you can use the desktop application

The get.diagrams.net host is also a CloudFlare site.

or even the Nextcloud app.

That's a Google site.

Then again: Reasons they moved away from the draw.io domain

and? There's nothing to see there -- it doesn't obviate the issues at hand.

and it can be self-hosted. The latter should be enough for us to recommend the software, even if not the service.

When you talk about software (as opposed to diagrams.net), you're no longer talking about a like-kind replacement of a service (Lucidchart). This is like saying you can replace a flight to Japan with an aircraft. They're not comparable.

Now let's suppose you find a like-kind software pkg that drawio can replace. Software needs documentation. The documentation is jailed in CloudFlare's walled-garden of privacy and ethics abuses. This is also where users will naturally (unwittingly) go to first just to read the official preview or overview of what it is. Obviously Swiso couldn't ethically link to diagrams.net, as it would be a hypocrisy and a betrayal to send readers to CloudFlare. So where do you send them?

The software is in the walled-garden of Microsoft Github with the bug tracker jailed there too. Apart from MS being a top adversary of Swiso's mission, s/w quality is also questionable, as ppl withhold bug reports when the bug tracker is in MS Github. Drawio is also not in the FSF Directory, so it's not been vetted for software freedom. Nor could it, because it doesn't conform to FSF's standards for free documentation. There are zero docs included with the s/w pkg. The shakey quality and freedom issues are likely why drawio is not even in the debian repos. In fact the lack of a man page alone makes it non-conformant to debian's basic minimum quality standards.

The only way for Swiso to endorse diagrams.net without betraying the public trust is to:

  1. Find a non-CloudFlare 3rd party that publicly hosts the drawio s/w, and endorse that service specifically without making reference to diagrams.net; or
  2. Approach diagrams.net and convince them to stop using CF & ideally get their bug tracker out of Microsoft's walled-garden.
> Also, it is a client-side web app so you can use [the desktop application](http://get.diagrams.net/) The get.diagrams.net host is also a CloudFlare site. > or even [the Nextcloud app](https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/drawio). That's a Google site. > Then again: [Reasons they moved away from the draw.io domain](https://www.diagrams.net/blog/move-diagrams-net) and? There's nothing to see there -- it doesn't obviate the issues at hand. > and [it can be self-hosted](https://github.com/jgraph/drawio). The latter should be enough for us to recommend the software, even if not the service. When you talk about ***software*** (as opposed to diagrams.net), you're no longer talking about a like-kind replacement of a ***service*** (Lucidchart). This is like saying you can replace a flight to Japan with an aircraft. They're not comparable. Now let's suppose you find a like-kind software pkg that drawio can replace. Software needs documentation. The [documentation](https://www.diagrams.net/doc/drawio-confluence-cloud.html) is jailed in CloudFlare's walled-garden of privacy and ethics abuses. This is also where users will naturally (unwittingly) go to first just to read the official preview or overview of what it is. Obviously Swiso couldn't ethically link to diagrams.net, as it would be a hypocrisy and a betrayal to send readers to CloudFlare. So where do you send them? The software is in the walled-garden of Microsoft Github with the bug tracker jailed there too. Apart from MS being a top adversary of Swiso's mission, s/w quality is also questionable, as ppl [withhold bug reports](https://infosec.exchange/@bojkotiMalbona/104637098084869887) when the bug tracker is in MS Github. Drawio is also not in the FSF Directory, so it's not been vetted for software freedom. Nor could it, because it doesn't conform to FSF's standards for free documentation. There are zero docs included with the s/w pkg. The shakey quality and freedom issues are likely why drawio is not even in the debian repos. In fact the lack of a man page alone makes it non-conformant to debian's basic minimum quality standards. The only way for Swiso to endorse diagrams.net without betraying the public trust is to\: 1. Find a non-CloudFlare 3rd party that publicly hosts the drawio s/w, and endorse that service specifically without making reference to diagrams.net; or 1. Approach diagrams.net and convince them to stop using CF & ideally get their bug tracker out of Microsoft's walled-garden.
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