#110 Add entries for developers (like Freshlytics)

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opened 3 weeks ago by TheMainOne · 29 comments

EDIT by @brickup: This issue originally proposed to add Freshlytics but now focuses on entries for developers in general. Below the original title and content of the issue for reference:


Add Freshlytics

There’s a FOSS alternative to Google Analytics called Freshlytics

*EDIT by @brickup: This issue originally proposed to add Freshlytics but now focuses on entries for developers in general. Below the original title and content of the issue for reference:* ----- # Add Freshlytics There's a FOSS alternative to Google Analytics called [Freshlytics](https://github.com/sheshbabu/freshlytics)
brickup added the
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label 2 weeks ago
brickup commented 2 weeks ago
Owner

The UI looks clean and straightforward. Is there a way for non-developers to use it? 🤔

The UI looks clean and straightforward. Is there a way for non-developers to use it? 🤔
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

i have no idea tbh

i have no idea tbh
wizzwizz4 commented 2 weeks ago
Collaborator

The instructions seem straightforward, if somebody can just fill in the assumed-common-knowledge blanks (how do you install Docker, etc.). I’m thinking a tutorial like:

  1. Install Docker and docker-compose.
  2. Set up the database.
    1. Identify which database engine is installed, or install Postgres.
    2. Create a user and database for Freshlytics (for each supported database engine).
    3. Get PipelineDB (whatever that is) working.
  3. Create the docker-compose.yml file.
  4. Start Freshlytics.
  5. Run the migration and initialisation(?) (seed) commands.
  6. Log in to the admin page.
  7. Change the admin password.
  8. Create a project.
  9. Insert the tracking script into a page.

… Yeah, that might be a bit much for non-programmers. (But don’t underestimate them too much!)


Should we have a tutorial section for this kind of thing, or is that feature creep?

The instructions seem straightforward, if somebody can just fill in the assumed-common-knowledge blanks (how do you install Docker, etc.). I'm thinking a tutorial like: 1. Install Docker and `docker-compose`. 2. Set up the database. 1. Identify which database engine is installed, or install Postgres. 2. Create a user and database for Freshlytics (for each supported database engine). 3. Get PipelineDB (whatever that is) working. 3. Create the `docker-compose.yml` file. 4. Start Freshlytics. 5. Run the migration and initialisation(?) (seed) commands. 6. Log in to the admin page. 7. Change the admin password. 8. Create a project. 9. Insert the tracking script into a page. … Yeah, that might be a bit much for non-programmers. (But don't underestimate them _too_ much!) --- Should we have a tutorial section for this kind of thing, or is that feature creep?
brickup commented 2 weeks ago
Owner

… Yeah, that might be a bit much for non-programmers.

Yes, I also think this is a bit too much 😅 especially 1 - 2iii.

Should we have a tutorial section for this kind of thing, or is that feature creep?

I think we can provide short tutorials for popular tools where there is no simpler alternative. Like there is for FDroid here kind of ... although this should maybe become a separate article or a link to an external, official guide someday.

Otherwise, we should avoid this as we have to maintain it. In my opinion, we should find and link to official documentations/tutorials as often as we can - as people developing a software know best how it works.

On Freshlytics, I personally wouldn’t do this, as there are simpler alternatives for non-developers - see the current list. 🙂

> … Yeah, that might be a bit much for non-programmers. Yes, I also think this is a bit too much 😅 especially 1 - 2iii. > Should we have a tutorial section for this kind of thing, or is that feature creep? I think we can provide short tutorials for popular tools where there is no simpler alternative. Like there is for [FDroid here](https://swiso.org/replace/google-play/) kind of ... although this should maybe become a separate article or a link to an external, official guide someday. Otherwise, we should avoid this as we have to maintain it. In my opinion, we should find and link to official documentations/tutorials as often as we can - as people developing a software know best how it works. On Freshlytics, I personally wouldn't do this, as there are simpler alternatives for non-developers - see the current list. 🙂
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

i don’t understand though, aren’t Google Analytics made for developers/sites, etc.? you have a dedicated alternatives page to Google Analytics, so i don’t understand why Freshlytics would be rejected

i don't understand though, aren't Google Analytics made for developers/sites, etc.? you have a dedicated [alternatives page to Google Analytics](https://switching.software/replace/google-analytics/), so i don't understand why Freshlytics would be rejected
brickup commented 2 weeks ago
Owner

I honestly don’t know whom it is made for. But I think it is also often used by non-developers 🙂

Many people already have a Google Account. If they set up a website/blog in one way or another, there often is some easy way to enter the Google tracking ID for automatic setup. I can recall Jimdo offering this out of the box and on Wordpress, there are plugins to easily integrate it.

That’s why I think there are many people using it: Just because it is the first option they stumbled upon - and they already had an account for it. They might have never seen the code snippet to include into the site or other technical details.

In the end, the main reason for this list to exist now is that it already existed on switching-social. Haven’t thought about it before. 🙂

I honestly don't know whom it is made for. But I think it is also often used by non-developers 🙂 Many people already have a Google Account. If they set up a website/blog in one way or another, there often is some easy way to enter the Google tracking ID for automatic setup. I can recall [Jimdo offering this out of the box](https://www.jimdo.com/blog/google-analytics-get-started-in-3-steps/) and on Wordpress, there are plugins to easily integrate it. That's why I think there are many people using it: Just because it is the first option they stumbled upon - and they already had an account for it. They might have never seen the code snippet to include into the site or other technical details. In the end, the main reason for this list to exist now is that it already existed [on switching-social](https://web.archive.org/web/20190401015654/https://switching.social/ethical-alternatives-to-google-analytics/). Haven't thought about it before. 🙂
wizzwizz4 commented 2 weeks ago
Collaborator

I think we should keep a focus on users, but we should still have categories where the users happen to be developers.

I think we should keep a focus on users, but we should still have categories where the users happen to be developers.
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

I think we should keep a focus on users, but we should still have categories where the users happen to be developers.

i second this. i just checked online, and i don’t see ANY switching.software alternatives that is tailored to developers. PrivacyToolsIO, PRISM Break, etc. are more tailored to the users and so does switching.software, so i would also suggest to make a category for developers

> I think we should keep a focus on users, but we should still have categories where the users happen to be developers. i second this. i just checked online, and i don't see ANY switching.software alternatives that is tailored to developers. PrivacyToolsIO, PRISM Break, etc. are more tailored to the users and so does switching.software, so i would also suggest to make a category for developers
brickup commented 2 weeks ago
Owner

I see your points and really appreciate your feedback. I also don’t know of another website just like ours, focussed on developers. The best I found and often looked at myself were “awesome” lists on Github. While writing this, I discovered this pretty nice collection of awesome-lists. A tracker-free fork of this would be quite nice as a starting point, but this really is A LOT of content and more of a “everything that is out there” approach instead of smaller, strictly curated lists. 😅

In my opinion, there really should be a separate project doing this: Developers curating a list of lists for developers. It shouldn’t be on us / on this project to make everyone happy. I know it might seem easy to just add more and more to switching.software. If you ask me, a project like ours should have a clear focus. Me personally, I don’t want this to become nearly as large as AlternativeToNet or the linked Awesome-list above.

This doesn’t affect things like a separate Advanced users list or linking to more technical sites. We should give the opportunity for a deeper dive. But in my opinion, all entries on the “main” lists should be completely usable by non-developers - from first to last, without exception.

With this in mind, back to this issue itself: If we added tools like Freshlytics, I think they should be clearly separated from other suggestions for non-developers. Right now, I wouldn’t know how to do this in a simple and straight-forward manner.

  • Two separate lists for Analytics? Kind of confusing.
  • Making the list longer and adding them to the end? Then non-developers would have the additional burden to think about whether this entry is usable by them. Developers might feel like an after-thought (kind of true due to our main focus).
  • Complete separate section on our website? Would need quite a bit of content before being plausible to browse it. I would prefer a separate project then.

What I propose: We could add a message to the end of a list like “If you are a developer and want to create something easy-to-use and privacy-friendly for non-developers, you might be interested in this: ...” followed by one or more links to something like a Github’s “awesome list” or tool-related and developer-focused ressources.

As this would look the same on every list (expandable box? kind of?), non-developers can easily ignore it while it might be really helpful for developers to get started ... or for non-developers to explore unknown terrain. The effort added to maintain this seems reasonable to me for the benefits gained. And it could be combined with “If you already did this, please let us know here” linked to our issue tracker.

This got quite long, sorry, but I wanted you to know that I really care on your proposals and ideas. Thanks for your engagement and patience, I highly appreciate it!

@TheMainOne: I’ll adapt the title and description of this issue to fit this discussion 🙂

**I see your points** and really appreciate your feedback. I also don't know of another website just like ours, focussed on developers. The best I found and often looked at myself were "awesome" lists on Github. While writing this, I discovered this [pretty nice collection of awesome-lists](https://project-awesome.org/). A tracker-free fork of this would be quite nice as a starting point, but this really is A LOT of content and more of a "everything that is out there" approach instead of smaller, strictly curated lists. :sweat_smile: **In my opinion**, there really should be a separate project doing this: Developers curating a list of lists for developers. It shouldn't be on us / on this project to make everyone happy. I know it might seem easy to just add more and more to switching.software. If you ask me, a project like ours should have a clear focus. Me personally, I *don't* want this to become nearly as large as AlternativeToNet or the linked Awesome-list above. This doesn't affect things like a separate [Advanced users list](https://swiso.org/list/advanced-users/) or [linking to more technical sites](https://swiso.org/replace/switching.software/). We should give the opportunity for a deeper dive. But in my opinion, all entries on the "main" lists should be completely usable by non-developers - from first to last, without exception. With this in mind, back **to this issue itself**: If we added tools like Freshlytics, I think they should be clearly separated from other suggestions for non-developers. Right now, I wouldn't know how to do this in a simple and straight-forward manner. * Two separate lists for Analytics? Kind of confusing. * Making the list longer and adding them to the end? Then non-developers would have the additional burden to think about whether this entry is usable by them. Developers might feel like an after-thought (kind of true due to our main focus). * Complete separate section on our website? Would need quite a bit of content before being plausible to browse it. I would prefer a separate project then. **What I propose**: We could add a message to the end of a list like "If you are a developer and want to create something easy-to-use and privacy-friendly for non-developers, you might be interested in this: ..." followed by one or more links to something like a Github's "awesome list" or tool-related and developer-focused ressources. As this would look the same on every list (expandable box? kind of?), non-developers can easily ignore it while it might be really helpful for developers to get started ... or for non-developers to explore unknown terrain. The effort added to maintain this seems reasonable to me for the benefits gained. And it could be combined with "If you already did this, *please let us know here*" linked to our issue tracker. **This got quite long, sorry**, but I wanted you to know that I really care on your proposals and ideas. Thanks for your engagement and patience, I highly appreciate it! @TheMainOne: I'll adapt the title and description of this issue to fit this discussion 🙂
brickup changed title from Add Freshlytics to Add entries for developers (like Freshlytics) 2 weeks ago
brickup added the
discussion
label 2 weeks ago
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

With this in mind, back to this issue itself: If we added tools like Freshlytics, I think they should be clearly separated from other suggestions for non-developers. Right now, I wouldn’t know how to do this in a simple and straight-forward manner.

  • Two separate lists for Analytics? Kind of confusing.
  • Making the list longer and adding them to the end? Then non-developers would have the additional burden to think about whether this entry is usable by them. Developers might feel like an after-thought (kind of true due to our main focus).
  • Complete separate section on our website? Would need quite a bit of content before being plausible to browse it. I would prefer a separate project then.

Fair

What I propose: We could add a message to the end of a list like “If you are a developer and want to create something easy-to-use and privacy-friendly for non-developers, you might be interested in this: ...” followed by one or more links to something like a Github’s “awesome list” or tool-related and developer-focused ressources.

i like this idea. in case you didn’t look at one of my posts in /r/privacy, i submitted a thread asking for help to the community to deGoogle FOSS. We started submitting merge requests and issues to projects so they can stop using proprietary Google services and use FOSS alternatives instead (you can read the homepage for more information).

Anyway, my team created a project to stop corporations for controlling the web and we are more focused onto developers and projects rather than the users. We are planning to provide a LOT of information and external sources on how to fight back. If you want, we can create a repository containing FOSS and ethical alternatives for developers.

Cc @resynth1943 @taminaru @ArcticTheRogue

This got quite long, sorry, but I wanted you to know that I really care on your proposals and ideas. Thanks for your engagement and patience, I highly appreciate it!

No problem! I also appreciate your awesome service

> With this in mind, back to this issue itself: If we added tools like Freshlytics, I think they should be clearly separated from other suggestions for non-developers. Right now, I wouldn't know how to do this in a simple and straight-forward manner. > > - Two separate lists for Analytics? Kind of confusing. > - Making the list longer and adding them to the end? Then non-developers would have the additional burden to think about whether this entry is usable by them. Developers might feel like an after-thought (kind of true due to our main focus). > - Complete separate section on our website? Would need quite a bit of content before being plausible to browse it. I would prefer a separate project then. Fair > What I propose: We could add a message to the end of a list like “If you are a developer and want to create something easy-to-use and privacy-friendly for non-developers, you might be interested in this: ...” followed by one or more links to something like a Github's “awesome list” or tool-related and developer-focused ressources. i like this idea. in case you didn't look at one of my posts in /r/privacy, [i submitted a thread asking for help to the community to deGoogle FOSS](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/gwsv5j/help_us_degoogle_foss_free_and_open_source/). We started submitting merge requests and issues to projects so they can stop using proprietary Google services and use FOSS alternatives instead (you can read the [homepage](https://pages.codeberg.org/reverseeagle/) for more information). Anyway, my team created a project to stop corporations for controlling the web and we are more focused onto developers and projects rather than the users. We are planning to provide a LOT of information and external sources on how to fight back. If you want, we can create a repository containing FOSS and ethical alternatives for developers. Cc @resynth1943 @taminaru @ArcticTheRogue > This got quite long, sorry, but I wanted you to know that I really care on your proposals and ideas. Thanks for your engagement and patience, I highly appreciate it! No problem! I also appreciate your awesome service
taminaru commented 2 weeks ago

I personally consider this a great idea! It will certainly make it easier for developers to switch to ethical alternatives.

I personally consider this a great idea! It will certainly make it easier for developers to switch to ethical alternatives.
wizzwizz4 commented 2 weeks ago
Collaborator

If we added tools like Freshlytics, I think they should be clearly separated from other suggestions for non-developers. Right now, I wouldn’t know how to do this in a simple and straight-forward manner.

Orange bordered box, a little label saying “technical”. The label has the cursor: help; style and a tooltip like “this software requires extra, technical knowledge to use”. Allow the user to filter out technical solutions (i.e. “hide technical” – there shouldn’t be a way to show only technical, because that’s an abuse of the distinction).

Or, more generally, have three categories:

  • green Simple / Easy – most people would be able to use this software
  • orange Technical – this software requires extra, technical knowledge to use
  • red Expert – most people would find this software difficult to use

and have “simple only”, “simple and technical”, “show all” buttons. These can be hidden in a drop-down labelled “filter” with a Y filter icon, or something… I’m not particularly good at web design.

I like this solution because I really want GoAccess (#34) to be on switching.software somewhere; it’s an easy to use, albeit technical, solution, and is the best possible system for many use-cases. (No, I still haven’t got over this. 😛)

> If we added tools like Freshlytics, I think they should be clearly separated from other suggestions for non-developers. Right now, I wouldn't know how to do this in a simple and straight-forward manner. Orange bordered box, a little label saying "technical". The label has the `cursor: help;` style and a tooltip like "this software requires extra, technical knowledge to use". Allow the user to filter out technical solutions (i.e. "hide technical" – there shouldn't be a way to show _only_ technical, because that's an abuse of the distinction). Or, more generally, have three categories: * green **Simple** / **Easy** – most people would be able to use this software * orange **Technical** – this software requires extra, technical knowledge to use * red **Expert** – most people would find this software difficult to use and have "simple only", "simple and technical", "show all" buttons. These can be hidden in a drop-down labelled "filter" with a Y filter icon, or something… I'm not particularly good at web design. I like this solution because I really want GoAccess (#34) to be on switching.software somewhere; it's an easy to use, albeit technical, solution, and is the best possible system for many use-cases. (No, I still haven't got over this. :stuck_out_tongue:)
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

I like this solution because I really want GoAccess (#34) to be on switching.software somewhere; it’s an easy to use, albeit technical, solution, and is the best possible system for many use-cases. (No, I still haven’t got over this. 😛)

If that doesn’t work, then we can always open our own repository and collaborate so they can link to our repository instead... That’s if @ArcticTheRogue, @taminaru, @resynth1943 and @brickup agree on this

@brickup it’s your call though. If you want to keep it focused on users, then my team is free to create a new repository containing FOSS alternatives suited for developers. If we do create a repository, @wizzwizz, if my team agrees on this, we can permit you write access

> I like this solution because I really want GoAccess (#34) to be on switching.software somewhere; it's an easy to use, albeit technical, solution, and is the best possible system for many use-cases. (No, I still haven't got over this. :stuck_out_tongue:) If that doesn't work, then we can always open our own repository and collaborate so they can link to our repository instead... That's if @ArcticTheRogue, @taminaru, @resynth1943 and @brickup agree on this @brickup it's your call though. If you want to keep it focused on users, then my team is free to create a new repository containing FOSS alternatives suited for developers. If we do create a repository, @wizzwizz, if my team agrees on this, we can permit you write access

I would be happy for any collaboration efforts. To contextualise, I am a software developer so this is right up my alley. An alternative list for projects that require technical knowledge sounds like a plausible (no pun intended) idea!

I can’t wait to see what happens!

Many thanks,
Synth

I would be happy for any collaboration efforts. To contextualise, I am a software developer so this is right up my alley. An alternative list for projects that require technical knowledge sounds like a plausible (no pun intended) idea! I can't wait to see what happens! Many thanks, Synth
brickup commented 2 weeks ago
Owner

(No, I still haven’t got over this.)

@wizzwizz4 I feel you, but hope you’ll forgive me one day 😅

If you want, we can create a repository containing FOSS and ethical alternatives for developers.
[...]
If that doesn’t work, then we can always open our own repository and collaborate so they can link to our repository instead

@TheMainOne I’d love this! As I said, making this a separate project with a clear focus and linking there on our sites is be the best solution in my opinion 🥳

OK, I will have a look at including additional infos at the bottom of lists as preparation 👓

> (No, I still haven't got over this.) @wizzwizz4 I feel you, but hope you'll forgive me one day :sweat_smile: > If you want, we can create a repository containing FOSS and ethical alternatives for developers. > [...] > If that doesn't work, then we can always open our own repository and collaborate so they can link to our repository instead @TheMainOne I'd love this! As I said, making this a separate project with a clear focus and linking there on our sites is be the best solution in my opinion 🥳 OK, I will have a look at including additional infos at the bottom of lists as preparation :eyeglasses:
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

awesome, i’ll create the repository when i’ll have the time

awesome, i'll create the repository when i'll have the time
TheMainOne commented 2 weeks ago
Poster

@brickup what do you suggest as the name of the project? i’m thinking of “Switching Software - Developers”. despite being a separate project, i wouldn’t mind having the Switching Software name

@brickup what do you suggest as the name of the project? i'm thinking of "Switching Software - Developers". despite being a separate project, i wouldn't mind having the Switching Software name
wizzwizz4 commented 2 weeks ago
Collaborator

Well, there was https://switching.social/, which became https://switching.software/, so… I’d suggest https://switching.dev/, but Google owns that; though I suppose there aren’t many ethical TLDs around anyway.

Well, there was https://switching.social/, which became https://switching.software/, so… I'd suggest https://switching.dev/, but Google owns that; though I suppose there aren't many ethical TLDs around anyway.
TheMainOne commented 1 week ago
Poster

we already started it lol, but i don’t mind having better options

image

we already started it lol, but i don't mind having better options ![image](/attachments/0477b003-0bfa-4666-a6bd-7747bbc0bad1)
148 KiB
brickup commented 1 week ago
Owner

Currently, there already is https://develop.switching.software for a preview of the current develop branch in this repository. So, might be confusing - but I think that’s okay. I like https://switching.dev 🙂

You already have a plan on hosting and stuff? .dev TLD can’t be bought via greenhost.net, just so you know.

Currently, there already is https://develop.switching.software for a preview of the current develop branch in this repository. So, might be confusing - but I think that's okay. I like https://switching.dev 🙂 You already have a plan on hosting and stuff? .dev TLD can't be bought via greenhost.net, just so you know.
TheMainOne commented 1 week ago
Poster

Currently, there already is https://develop.switching.software for a preview of the current develop branch in this repository. So, might be confusing - but I think that’s okay. I like https://switching.dev 🙂

You already have a plan on hosting and stuff? .dev TLD can’t be bought via greenhost.net, just so you know.

We should all make a decision before all going out of our ways and messing everything up. i was doing a page specifically for developers because i thought we were all agreeing on this...

> Currently, there already is https://develop.switching.software for a preview of the current develop branch in this repository. So, might be confusing - but I think that's okay. I like https://switching.dev 🙂 > > You already have a plan on hosting and stuff? .dev TLD can't be bought via greenhost.net, just so you know. > > We should all make a decision before all going out of our ways and messing everything up. i was doing a page specifically for developers because i thought we were all agreeing on this...
brickup commented 1 week ago
Owner

I agree on this, just wanted to add my opinion on the Top Level Domain 🙂 Didn’t want to mess anything up 😅 The screenshot already looks very good btw!

I agree on this, just wanted to add my opinion on the Top Level Domain 🙂 Didn't want to mess anything up :sweat_smile: The screenshot already looks very good btw!
TheMainOne commented 1 week ago
Poster

i’m glad for this and i thank you for the feedback, but we still have to organize everything since we have NO idea what we are doing right now

since the work has already been started, you could link the developer’s side to our website once i’m ready to push, if that’s okay with you

(also i used the icons from your repos because they’re so well made)

i'm glad for this and i thank you for the feedback, but we still have to organize everything since we have NO idea what we are doing right now since the work has already been started, you could link the developer's side to our website once i'm ready to push, if that's okay with you (also i used the icons from your repos because they're so well made)
brickup commented 1 week ago
Owner

you could link the developer’s side to our website

Sorry, I don’t understand this 😅 You mean adding links at the end of our lists to the appropriate developer list on your website?

EDIT: And of course I’m fine with you using the icons 🙂

> you could link the developer's side to our website Sorry, I don't understand this :sweat_smile: You mean adding links at the end of our lists to the appropriate developer list on your website? EDIT: And of course I'm fine with you using the icons 🙂
TheMainOne commented 1 week ago
Poster

basically yes.

i would suggest to remove the contents for the stuff that are related to developers’ tools, e.g. Google Analytics, reCAPTCHA, etc. and only put a link that will redirect to the website (that i will provide soon)

i hope i cleared that out, it’s hard to explain

basically yes. i would suggest to remove the contents for the stuff that are related to developers' tools, e.g. [Google Analytics](https://switching.software/replace/google-analytics/), [reCAPTCHA](https://switching.software/replace/google-recaptcha/), etc. and only put a link that will redirect to the website (that i will provide soon) i hope i cleared that out, it's hard to explain
brickup commented 1 week ago
Owner

Okay, that cleared it up, thanks 🙂 And yes, seems like a good idea.

Okay, that cleared it up, thanks 🙂 And yes, seems like a good idea.
TheMainOne commented 1 week ago
Poster
still working https://codeberg.org/ReverseEagle/pages/src/branch/developers-alternatives/switching.software-developers/switching.software-developers.html
wizzwizz4 commented 1 week ago
Collaborator

I’ve been convinced we need “analytics for non-techies” on https://switching.software. But if it ends up completely moved, make sure the URLs don’t rot.

I've been convinced we need "analytics for non-techies" on https://switching.software. But if it ends up completely moved, make sure the URLs don't rot.

Yeah, we are working on this but we’re not going to announce anything before we get everything stable.

Yeah, we are working on this but we're not going to announce anything before we get everything stable.
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