Remove 404.city from suggested servers #20

Merged
southerntofu merged 1 commits from rm-404city into main 6 months ago
pep. commented 6 months ago
Owner
See https://mov.im/?node/pubsub.movim.eu/make-xmpp-antifacist-again Signed-off-by: Maxime “pep” Buquet <pep@bouah.net>
pep. added 1 commit 6 months ago
southerntofu merged commit 17a0cc4f59 into main 6 months ago

:-)
thank you!

:-) thank you!

This information is fake. The source is currently remote.
The 404.city server provides a high security class for this reason, the intelligence services will remove it from the lists.

This information is fake. The source is currently remote. The [404.city](https://404.city) server provides a high security class for this reason, the intelligence services will remove it from the lists.

Hello @sea-horse, you may agree or disagree with some interpretation of the situations presented, but by any account the information is not "fake". I am a first-hand witness to some of these discussions and while some specific behaviors and frames have hurt me from both sides, i believe it undeniable there is a strong moderation problem on 404.city chatrooms.

I appreciate 404.city for their efforts to promote and open-registration server that is tor-friendly, and myself have a few pseudonymous accounts there. However, we cannot in good conscience recommend a server to newcomers where nazis and other white supremacists and masculinists are parading and making the rest of us uncomfortable.

This was adopted by consensus as part of our goals as a collective and is therefore very unlikely to change:

JoinJabber promotes cultural diversity and international cooperation; we want to empower people to communicate without any form of oppression or barriers; any language is welcome in the community, although each language has its own channels (forums, chats…).

JoinJabber opposes toxic and oppressive behavior such as stalking, harrassment, and spamming; we will ban people harming our users and our community

I understand the need for fully open-registration servers and we might reevaluate listing 404.city on a list of such servers in the future. BUT for something like this to happen, we'd likely need 404.city chatrooms to be better moderated, and to have many other such servers to list (listing 404.city in a long list is not the same as listing it as one of TWO servers as we previously had).

Please let us know if the 404.city community finally has debates/resolutions on community moderation and how to build a friendly and trustworthy environment. Wish you the best

Hello @sea-horse, you may agree or disagree with some interpretation of the situations presented, but by any account the information is not "fake". I am a first-hand witness to some of these discussions and while some specific behaviors and frames have hurt me from both sides, i believe it undeniable there is a strong moderation problem on 404.city chatrooms. I appreciate 404.city for their efforts to promote and open-registration server that is tor-friendly, and myself have a few pseudonymous accounts there. However, we cannot in good conscience recommend a server to newcomers where nazis and other white supremacists and masculinists are parading and making the rest of us uncomfortable. This was adopted *by consensus* as part of [our goals](https://joinjabber.org/collective/about/goals/) as a collective and is therefore very unlikely to change: > JoinJabber promotes cultural diversity and international cooperation; we want to empower people to communicate without any form of oppression or barriers; any language is welcome in the community, although each language has its own channels (forums, chats…). > JoinJabber opposes toxic and oppressive behavior such as stalking, harrassment, and spamming; we will ban people harming our users and our community I understand the need for fully open-registration servers and we might reevaluate listing 404.city on a list of such servers in the future. BUT for something like this to happen, we'd likely need 404.city chatrooms to be better moderated, and to have many other such servers to list (listing 404.city in a long list is not the same as listing it as one of TWO servers as we previously had). Please let us know if the 404.city community finally has debates/resolutions on community moderation and how to build a friendly and trustworthy environment. Wish you the best
  1. Propaganda of Nazism prohibited by the rules

https://wiki.404.city/en/404.city:_Terms_of_Use

Prohibited:
Propaganda of Nazism

  1. The chat 'news@chat.404.city' in question in your mention does not exist
  2. There was an attack by trolls to induce discrediting. Provocative messages were disseminated purposefully to file complaints for other sources.There were no requests for feedback (support contact address) with a complaint
  3. Complaints written to group chats on other servers) contained false information. Allegedly, the user infringed on the rights, because he gave a link to the news from www.dailymail.co.uk
  4. Prior to this, this chat servers has already been repeatedly attacked with the aim of causing denial of service from thousands of fake addresses (Morph-attack. Attacks when one troll mimic the behavior of a dozen real people)
1) Propaganda of Nazism prohibited by the rules https://wiki.404.city/en/404.city:_Terms_of_Use > Prohibited: > Propaganda of Nazism 2) The chat 'news@chat.404.city' in question in your mention does not exist 3) There was an attack by trolls to induce discrediting. Provocative messages were disseminated purposefully to file complaints for other sources.There were no requests for feedback (support contact address) with a complaint 4) Complaints written to group chats on other servers) contained false information. Allegedly, the user infringed on the rights, because he gave a link to the news from www.dailymail.co.uk 5) Prior to this, this chat servers has already been repeatedly attacked with the aim of causing denial of service from thousands of fake addresses (Morph-attack. Attacks when one troll mimic the behavior of a dozen real people)
Owner

Hello @sea-horse, thank you for these informations! It would be nice to get in touch, either privately or publicly, so that similar issues in the future can be resolved with much less drama.

That case we were talking about went all the way to operators@muc.xsf.org where someone who claimed to be from 404 team had a really dismissive/provocative attitude towards moderation (i don't remember the details, but i believe they were kicked or banned for that reason). I personally did not bother to read through 404.city website to make a proper abuse report to the admins, and i definitely should have in retrospect.

Another person who came on this bugtracker (here) also had a recollection of events that directly contradicted my own (as explained on that ticket).

It may well be a huge misunderstanding. I'm not aware of your operational structure, but if we can have "official" positions from 404.city about harassment and racism/misogyny on their services, we would be glad to reonsider inclusion on joinjabber.org homepage. The link you provided to Terms and Conditions is broken (good link), and the FAQ has no such mention. I could not find how to access the wiki Terms of Use from the 404.city homepage.

Let us know about developments on your side, we're always reachable on chat@joinjabber.org

EDIT: I found the ToS link in small characters in the footer. Maybe adding it below/above "Captcha doesn't load" on the registration form could be an idea?

Hello @sea-horse, thank you for these informations! It would be nice to get in touch, either privately or publicly, so that similar issues in the future can be resolved with much less drama. That case we were talking about went all the way to operators@muc.xsf.org where someone who claimed to be from 404 team had a really dismissive/provocative attitude towards moderation (i don't remember the details, but i believe they were kicked or banned for that reason). I personally did not bother to read through 404.city website to make a proper abuse report to the admins, and i definitely should have in retrospect. Another person who came on this bugtracker ([here](https://codeberg.org/joinjabber/website/issues/23)) also had a recollection of events that directly contradicted my own (as explained on that ticket). It may well be a huge misunderstanding. I'm not aware of your operational structure, but if we can have "official" positions from 404.city about harassment and racism/misogyny on their services, we would be glad to reonsider inclusion on joinjabber.org homepage. The link you provided to Terms and Conditions is broken ([good link](https://wiki.404.city/404.city/terms_of_use)), and [the FAQ](https://404.city/+/faq.html) has no such mention. ~~I could not find how to access the wiki Terms of Use from the 404.city homepage.~~ Let us know about developments on your side, we're always reachable on [chat@joinjabber.org](xmpp:chat@joinjabber.org?join) EDIT: I found the ToS link in small characters in the footer. Maybe adding it below/above "Captcha doesn't load" on the registration form could be an idea?
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