settle on a logo license #16

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opened 1 year ago by mray · 19 comments
mray commented 1 year ago
Collaborator

As noted by @lhinderberger #3 are a couple of questions that need to be resolved before deciding on a license for the logo.

In my opinion it should meet the requirements of being practical for the community to make use of it, compatible with all sorts of uses in software and on project websites, but also make sure we remain in control in case of a dispute.

Mixing licenses and adding an exception to how they apply seems to work for other projects, but what licenses are those and what exceptions would we need?

As noted by @lhinderberger https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Design/issues/3#issuecomment-72364 there are a couple of questions that need to be resolved before deciding on a license for the logo. In my opinion it should meet the requirements of being practical for the community to make use of it, compatible with all sorts of uses in software and on project websites, but also make sure we remain in control in case of a dispute. Mixing licenses and adding an exception to how they apply seems to work for other projects, but what licenses are those and what exceptions would we need?

A quick sum-up of the positions in #3

  • An early idea was to put the logo under a permissive license, such as CC0 or CC-BY
  • So far, the idea of using a permissive license seemed to resonate well with the posters in #3, especially since it allows for easy wide-spread usage for example on t-shirts and slides
  • There are mixed opinions about whether an attribution requirement would be necessary or superfluous.
  • The Creative Commons FAQ takes a critical stance towards putting logos and trademarks under either license: https://creativecommons.org/faq/#could-i-use-a-cc-license-to-share-my-logo-or-trademark
  • Another question is, whether we already have a trademark on Codeberg automatically, like with copyright or whether that would mean additional costs and effort to register and uphold a trademark
A quick sum-up of the positions in #3 - An early idea was to put the logo under a permissive license, such as CC0 or CC-BY - So far, the idea of using a permissive license seemed to resonate well with the posters in #3, especially since it allows for easy wide-spread usage for example on t-shirts and slides - There are mixed opinions about whether an attribution requirement would be necessary or superfluous. - The Creative Commons FAQ takes a critical stance towards putting logos and trademarks under either license: https://creativecommons.org/faq/#could-i-use-a-cc-license-to-share-my-logo-or-trademark - Another question is, whether we already have a trademark on Codeberg automatically, like with copyright or whether that would mean additional costs and effort to register and uphold a trademark

A possible compromise could be to prefer using an open license over potential trademark protection loss and to use a license with attribution requirement to at least retain some control.

A possible compromise could be to prefer using an open license over potential trademark protection loss and to use a license with attribution requirement to at least retain some control.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer

  • Debian has a free-to-use version of its logo, dual-licensed under LGPLv3 or later and CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported (https://www.debian.org/logos/) and they refer to their logo as an Open-source brand
  • Apache focuses on trademark law to protect their names and logos: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
  • The page above also contains an extensive list of general FOSS-trademark related resources
  • Wikimedia uses CC-BY-SA 3.0 for their Wikipedia logo, with an additional trademark policy.

Maybe that might be the way to go for us too - use a CC license for the copyright aspect of the logo but always together with a notice that refers to (yet-to-be-written) trademark usage guidelines. Model guidelines would be available under http://modeltrademarkguidelines.org

Disclaimer: [I am not a lawyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IANAL) - Debian has a free-to-use version of its logo, dual-licensed under LGPLv3 or later and CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported (https://www.debian.org/logos/) and they refer to their logo as an [Open-source brand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_brand) - Apache focuses on trademark law to protect their names and logos: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources - The page above also contains an extensive list of general FOSS-trademark related resources - Wikimedia uses CC-BY-SA 3.0 for their Wikipedia logo, with an additional trademark policy. Maybe that might be the way to go for us too - use a CC license for the copyright aspect of the logo but always together with a notice that refers to (yet-to-be-written) trademark usage guidelines. Model guidelines would be available under http://modeltrademarkguidelines.org
mray commented 1 year ago
Poster
Collaborator

I like all the information you're pulling together here! I'm glad we are not coming to conclusions too hasty.

Something that just crossed my mind and might be relevant too is the fact that Codeberg isn't a product, but a service (different to gitea), making some comparison more or less approriate.

I like all the information you're pulling together here! I'm glad we are not coming to conclusions too hasty. Something that just crossed my mind and might be relevant too is the fact that Codeberg isn't a product, but a service (different to gitea), making some comparison more or less approriate.

I like all the information you're pulling together here!

Thanks, I'm glad you like it :)

Something that just crossed my mind and might be relevant too is the fact that Codeberg isn't a product, but a service (different to gitea), making some comparison more or less approriate.

True, it's mainly a service (and mainly mainly a non-profit organization 😄).
There are some components that are more product-like (software developed by Codeberg for example, and in the future it might be things like Codeberg CI or Codeberg Packages, which probably will be both product and service), so in the end we have to take everything into account.

> I like all the information you're pulling together here! Thanks, I'm glad you like it :) > Something that just crossed my mind and might be relevant too is the fact that Codeberg isn't a product, but a service (different to gitea), making some comparison more or less approriate. True, it's mainly a service (and mainly mainly a non-profit organization :smile:). There are some components that are more product-like (software developed by Codeberg for example, and in the future it might be things like Codeberg CI or Codeberg Packages, which probably will be both product and service), so in the end we have to take everything into account.

What would we need to get this issue resolved quickly?

What would we need to get this issue resolved quickly?

There is a guide on trademarks for free software projects at https://softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html#x1-600005

(I was an employee at SFLC when my colleagues put together that resource, but I am not myself a lawyer.)

The plan above sounds like a reasonable starting point.

There is a guide on trademarks for free software projects at https://softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html#x1-600005 (I was an employee at SFLC when my colleagues put together that resource, but I am not myself a lawyer.) The plan [above](https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Design/issues/16#issuecomment-73320) sounds like a reasonable starting point.
mray commented 1 year ago
Poster
Collaborator

I guess an intersting question is how trademark applies to us, where it applies and what we have to register it.

If we quickly want to move forward we don't have to decide on this very fast. Just going with a simple and save decision will work for now. Early requests (if any arise) to use the logo can even be handled privately.

I guess an intersting question is how trademark applies to us, where it applies and what we have to register it. If we quickly want to move forward we don't have to decide on this very fast. Just going with a simple and save decision will work for now. Early requests (if any arise) to use the logo can even be handled privately.

Can CC-BY 4.0 with a notice like "Codeberg and the Codeberg Logo are trademarks of Codeberg e.V." be considered a simple and safe option?

That way, we wouldn't need to write trademark guidelines right away. Where trademark-related questions arise, people could then be encouraged to just ask for now :)

Can CC-BY 4.0 with a notice like "Codeberg and the Codeberg Logo are trademarks of Codeberg e.V." be considered a simple and safe option? That way, we wouldn't need to write trademark guidelines right away. Where trademark-related questions arise, people could then be encouraged to just ask for now :)
mray commented 1 year ago
Poster
Collaborator

CC-BY 4.0 with a notice like “Codeberg and the Codeberg Logo are trademarks of Codeberg e.V.”

If that's ok, then I'll embed this in the logo metadata, too and start working on a downloadable logo-kit.

> CC-BY 4.0 with a notice like “Codeberg and the Codeberg Logo are trademarks of Codeberg e.V.” If that's ok, then I'll embed this in the logo metadata, too and start working on a downloadable logo-kit.

@hw Are there objections from your side? :)

@hw Are there objections from your side? :)
hw commented 1 year ago
Owner

not at all!

not at all!

Well that's great :)

@mray - may I already use your logo as published in build-deploy-gitea under CC-BY 4.0 so that I can finish the documentation site?

Well that's great :) @mray - may I already use your logo as published in `build-deploy-gitea` under CC-BY 4.0 so that I can finish the documentation site?
mray commented 1 year ago
Poster
Collaborator

@mray - may I already use your logo…

sure, we should try to make a switch as coherent as possible, though. Confusion is the last thing we want to associate with the logo :)

Is your site ready now?

> @mray - may I already use your logo… sure, we should try to make a switch as coherent as possible, though. Confusion is the last thing we want to associate with the logo :) Is your site ready now?
mray commented 1 year ago
Poster
Collaborator

so it is:

CC-BY 4.0 international

&

"Codeberg and the Codeberg Logo are trademarks of Codeberg e.V."

so it is: CC-BY 4.0 international & "Codeberg and the Codeberg Logo are trademarks of Codeberg e.V."
mray closed this issue 1 year ago

Is your site ready now?

Yes, I'm replacing the filler content with the actual content now as I prepare the pull request :)

> Is your site ready now? Yes, I'm replacing the filler content with the actual content now as I prepare the pull request :)
hw commented 1 year ago
Owner

ping us when time has come for initial deployment to https://codeberg-test.org

ping us when time has come for initial deployment to https://codeberg-test.org
https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Documentation/pulls/20 is now available and can be tested under https://cb-docs-prototype.lhinderberger.com
hw commented 1 year ago
Owner

cool! give us a few days now

cool! give us a few days now
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