Idea Management - Ideation Hub, Ideas Hub #3

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opened 8 months ago by CSDUMMI · 7 comments
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Idea Managment is the first part of the social coding
project.

The purpose of this subproject is to gather, discuss,
contrectize and improve upon ideas.

Ideas are used by Community Managment and Project Managment to base their Communities and Projects on.

This issue is for the discussion of these non-technical questions (in quotes you find my notes on the question):

Formats

  • In what format should ideas be proposable (Text, Video, Image, size limits)?

I'd allow for Ideas being made in any format, Text, Video or Image, but make a character length, time and size restriction. Anymore information might be linked to.

Discussion, Syndication and Social Networking

  • How should discussion happen?

While a native UI should exist, creating it's own feeds of interest, ideas should be available across the Fediverse.

  • How should ideas and discussions be synthesized for people of different interests, orientations and preferences?

Tags and Topics should be added to Ideas and users should be able to follow other users.

License

  • What licenses for the ideas can and should be used?
  • How can license information be communicated?
  • Should the license of the idea restrict the licenses of the projects based on it?

This is legal stuff. I'm not entirely sure, but it'd probably be safe to include a requirement that any idea be at least CC in order to be added to the Idea Managment.

Community building

  • How can you turn an idea into a community & project?

Users might pledge themselves to an idea and once more than one person pledges themselves to an idea, they can create a Community with Community Managment (which then interacts with Project Managment).

Idea Managment is the first part of the social coding project. The purpose of this subproject is to gather, discuss, contrectize and improve upon ideas. Ideas are used by Community Managment and Project Managment to base their Communities and Projects on. This issue is for the discussion of these non-technical questions (in quotes you find my notes on the question): ### Formats - In what format should ideas be proposable (Text, Video, Image, size limits)? > I'd allow for Ideas being made in any format, Text, Video or Image, but make a character length, time and size restriction. Anymore information might be linked to. ### Discussion, Syndication and Social Networking - How should discussion happen? > While a native UI should exist, creating it's own feeds of interest, ideas should be available across the Fediverse. - How should ideas and discussions be synthesized for people of different interests, orientations and preferences? > Tags and Topics should be added to Ideas and users should be able to follow other users. ### License - What licenses for the ideas can and should be used? - How can license information be communicated? - Should the license of the idea restrict the licenses of the projects based on it? > This is legal stuff. I'm not entirely sure, but it'd probably be safe to include a requirement that any idea be at least CC in order to be added to the Idea Managment. ### Community building - How can you turn an idea into a community & project? > Users might pledge themselves to an idea and once more than one person pledges themselves to an idea, they can create a Community with Community Managment (which then interacts with Project Managment).
CSDUMMI started working 8 months ago
CSDUMMI cancelled time tracking 8 months ago

FYI. In #1 I provided some external sources to take inspiration from, like Innovation ontologies (which might be readily adaptable as AP message formats / vocabs).

The purpose of this subproject is to gather, discuss, concretize and improve upon ideas.

Let's wait with defining concrete subprojects until we elaborated the design a bit further. We might have a design repo to keep that apart from discussion.

We have defined 3 sub-domains right now to 'discover'. Implementation-wise they may result in 3 or more Bonfire components. Then we have an app platform that brings things together. It may expose a single sub-domain via its UI, or multiple ones (e.g. 'Ideation Community').

Under "Social Coding" as the org we can have as many projects / repo's as we want. Maybe for the federated app we might come up with a fun and compelling 'product name'.

But inspired by your title names I like "IdeationHub" better. It refers to the process, and with 'hub' we don't have to talk about 'instances' which I find a horrible fedi terminology (non-tech folks don't understand it well). If you agree we can use 'Ideation Hub' in domain terminology for now (maybe make it the app name even.. IdeationHubz ;).

Formats

I'd allow for Ideas being made in any format, Text, Video or Image, but make a character length, time and size restriction. Anymore information might be linked to.

I agree. But for the MVP let's start with Text. Ideally Markdown-formatted.

I'd like us to consider that and Idea has a Template. But for the MVP there's only 1 fixed template and the concept doesn't surface in the UI (or much in code either). A template possibly determines both properties of the Idea as well as content structure.

Discussion, Syndication and Social Networking

While a native UI should exist, creating it's own feeds of interest, ideas should be available across the Fediverse.

Strongly agree. It would be great if we can follow a 'federate-first' approach. Most apps first federate only with themself, and then Fediverse interop is added later.

Interop on the fedi is limited to Microblogging currently, but that is enough functionality for proper comment threads. Via the app's UI more specialized kinds of ideation feedback may be provided. This requires deeper Community involvement, which is something we likely want to promote (see CODE Principles).

I have an interesting idea for Syndication. Something that I continue to find interesting use cases for: Federated Murmurations. Implementing this would lead to another independent Bonfire building block (and a fine community to collaborate with).

With Murmations things turn around and become more centralized:

  • People can submit an idea anywhere, and also host it on their own environment (e.g. a Blog).
  • An Idea profile is submitted to an Ideation Hub from where it federates further.
  • Anyone subscribed to the Idea Topic receives it an can start to interact on it.

License

This is legal stuff. I'm not entirely sure, but it'd probably be safe to include a requirement that any idea be at least CC in order to be added to the Idea Managment.

Yes. If there is no license, then de-facto something is "Copyright TheAuthor. All rights reserved" and that does not match the CODE Principles.

I would say that in the MVP we support the Creative Commons licenses and default to CC BY-SA. Then later on other open licenses can be added. It may require a vote. Maybe 'Manage Licenses' is something that a Community does, a use case of the app. In MVP if a license is missing, or doesn't match acceptible ones, then the Idea cannot be submitted.

In UI we need to see how best to communicate. It is important info. On the wire JSON-LD and Schema.org have some good methods. I use it in fedi.foundation in SEO knowledge graph info. See: fediverse/fedi-foundation#4

Community building

Users might pledge themselves to an idea and once more than one person pledges themselves to an idea, they can create a Community with Community Management (which then interacts with Project Managment).

Yes, something like that. A kind of ongoing matchmaking process occurs, from which both Communities and Projects emerge. Each from their own sub-domain they are 'aggregate roots' that have M-to-N relationship. People should be able to freely Join or Leave either of these whenever they want. 'Pledge' might be too strongly worded then. It start with "showing an interest". Once they become active in a Project, a stronger bond / deeper involvement ensues.

(PS. I try to avoid the term 'User' altogether. People, person, fedizen.. anything is better)

FYI. In https://codeberg.org/SocialCoding/discussion/issues/1#issuecomment-286896 I provided some external sources to take inspiration from, like Innovation ontologies (which might be readily adaptable as AP message formats / vocabs). > The purpose of this subproject is to gather, discuss, concretize and improve upon ideas. Let's wait with defining concrete subprojects until we elaborated the design a bit further. We might have a `design` repo to keep that apart from `discussion`. We have defined 3 sub-domains right now to 'discover'. Implementation-wise they may result in 3 or more Bonfire components. Then we have an app platform that brings things together. It may expose a single sub-domain via its UI, or multiple ones (e.g. 'Ideation Community'). Under "Social Coding" as the org we can have as many projects / repo's as we want. Maybe for the federated app we might come up with a fun and compelling 'product name'. But inspired by your title names I like **"IdeationHub"** better. It refers to the process, and with 'hub' we don't have to talk about 'instances' which I find a horrible fedi terminology (non-tech folks don't understand it well). If you agree we can use 'Ideation Hub' in domain terminology for now (maybe make it the app name even.. IdeationHubz ;). ### Formats > I'd allow for Ideas being made in any format, Text, Video or Image, but make a character length, time and size restriction. Anymore information might be linked to. I agree. But for the MVP let's start with Text. Ideally Markdown-formatted. I'd like us to consider that and Idea has a Template. But for the MVP there's only 1 fixed template and the concept doesn't surface in the UI (or much in code either). A template possibly determines both properties of the Idea as well as content structure. ### Discussion, Syndication and Social Networking > While a native UI should exist, creating it's own feeds of interest, ideas should be available across the Fediverse. Strongly agree. It would be great if we can follow a 'federate-first' approach. Most apps first federate only with themself, and then Fediverse interop is added later. Interop on the fedi is limited to Microblogging currently, but that is enough functionality for proper comment threads. Via the app's UI more specialized kinds of ideation feedback may be provided. This requires deeper Community involvement, which is something we likely want to promote (see [CODE Principles](https://codeberg.org/SocialCoding/discussion/issues/5#issuecomment-286950)). I have an interesting idea for Syndication. Something that I continue to find interesting use cases for: [Federated Murmurations](https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/federating-the-murmurations-protocol/1701). Implementing this would lead to another independent Bonfire building block (and a fine community to collaborate with). With Murmations things turn around and become more centralized: - People can submit an idea anywhere, and also host it on their own environment (e.g. a Blog). - An Idea profile is submitted to an Ideation Hub from where it federates further. - Anyone subscribed to the Idea Topic receives it an can start to interact on it. ### License > This is legal stuff. I'm not entirely sure, but it'd probably be safe to include a requirement that any idea be at least CC in order to be added to the Idea Managment. Yes. If there is no license, then de-facto something is _"Copyright TheAuthor. All rights reserved"_ and that does not match the [CODE Principles](https://codeberg.org/SocialCoding/discussion/issues/5#issuecomment-286950). I would say that in the MVP we support the [Creative Commons](https://creativecommons.org) licenses and default to `CC BY-SA`. Then later on other open licenses can be added. It may require a vote. Maybe 'Manage Licenses' is something that a Community does, a use case of the app. In MVP if a license is missing, or doesn't match acceptible ones, then the Idea cannot be submitted. In UI we need to see how best to communicate. It is important info. On the wire JSON-LD and Schema.org have some good methods. I use it in fedi.foundation in SEO knowledge graph info. See: https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fedi-foundation/issues/4#issuecomment-239610 ### Community building > Users might pledge themselves to an idea and once more than one person pledges themselves to an idea, they can create a Community with Community Management (which then interacts with Project Managment). Yes, something like that. A kind of ongoing matchmaking process occurs, from which both Communities and Projects emerge. Each from their own sub-domain they are 'aggregate roots' that have M-to-N relationship. People should be able to freely Join or Leave either of these whenever they want. 'Pledge' might be too strongly worded then. It start with "showing an interest". Once they become active in a Project, a stronger bond / deeper involvement ensues. (PS. I try to avoid the term 'User' altogether. People, person, fedizen.. anything is better)
circlebuilder changed title from Idea Managment - Ideation, Ideas Hub to Idea Management - Ideation Hub, Ideas Hub 8 months ago
Poster
Owner

IdeationHub - great, though it reminds me of other -Hubs. Let's stick with that for now.

Murmurations

How does the Murmurations project help us and how can we use it?

I'm not entirely sure, when you refer to an entire project (that I've been ignorant too), what part of that project is relevant to social coding and how can it be used with Bonfire?

License

We can finish this discussion I think by saying:

  1. Any idea has to be licensed as CC BY-SA or better. Only CC BY-SA in the MVP.
  2. The License is part of the idea and communicated to all servers and users clearly.

Community building

Idea Managment's purpose is to build a
community, which is then managed in Community
Managment.

Let's use the word "join" to convy when a
person wants to develop a an idea in the form
of a project, because I think it needs more than
a couple of "interested" people to start a community and a project.

Once a few (at least 2) people have joined an idea, they can start a community and project together through Commmunity Managment.

IdeationHub - great, though it reminds me of other -Hubs. Let's stick with that for now. ### Murmurations How does the Murmurations project help us and how can we use it? I'm not entirely sure, when you refer to an entire project (that I've been ignorant too), what part of that project is relevant to social coding and how can it be used with Bonfire? ### License We can finish this discussion I think by saying: 1. Any idea has to be licensed as CC BY-SA or better. Only CC BY-SA in the MVP. 2. The License is part of the idea and communicated to all servers and users clearly. ### Community building Idea Managment's purpose is to build a community, which is then managed in Community Managment. Let's use the word "join" to convy when a person wants to develop a an idea in the form of a project, because I think it needs more than a couple of "interested" people to start a community and a project. Once a few (at least 2) people have joined an idea, they can start a community and project together through Commmunity Managment.

Murmurations

How does the Murmurations project help us and how can we use it?

That is TBD, and it is more the concept / idea that is interesting. Murmurations Protocol is sort of a spec, and has front-end components that may be usable. The murmuration profiles are JSON/JSON-LD which may closely match Idea and Idea Templates that are used internally and/or federated.

### Murmurations > How does the Murmurations project help us and how can we use it? That is TBD, and it is more the concept / idea that is interesting. [Murmurations Protocol](https://murmurations.network/) is sort of a spec, and has front-end components that may be usable. The murmuration profiles are JSON/JSON-LD which may closely match Idea and Idea Templates that are used internally and/or federated.
Poster
Owner

Okay. So, something to keep in mind for now.

Okay. So, something to keep in mind for now.
Poster
Owner

Let's try to create IdeationHub-MVP.md in the repository to gather the results of this issue, okay?

Let's try to create IdeationHub-MVP.md in the repository to gather the results of this issue, okay?
Poster
Owner

IdeationHub

Let's stick with this name for now. It's great, although kind of reminding of certain other *-Hubs.

Formats

I agree, that we should restrict ourselves
to Markdown supported text with a fixed character length (500 < somewhere here < 1500).

Templates is an idea, that I think you need to specify further.
It should in my opinion be something that we as developers first set, but that both local administrators and the fedizen's can change this template to suit their needs.

Any information we need an idea to contain for technical purposes (author, license, date) should be stored separately from the text.

> IdeationHub Let's stick with this name for now. It's great, although kind of reminding of certain other *-Hubs. ### Formats I agree, that we should restrict ourselves to Markdown supported text with a fixed character length (500 < somewhere here < 1500). Templates is an idea, that I think you need to specify further. It should in my opinion be something that we as developers first set, but that both local administrators and the fedizen's can change this template to suit their needs. Any information we need an idea to contain for technical purposes (author, license, date) should be stored separately from the text.

Kanban, brainstorming, whiteboarding free software

Posted something in Bonfire chatroom on Kanban / Brainstorming tools (where use of Trello was mentioned):

I've used a variety of tools myself. The issue I have with Trello (and many tools in general) is that they go far beyond an intuitive set of use cases and start to be a "one-stop shop" bag of features that kills the UX. So then it becomes more and more vital to manage the processes to still be productive. Tool convenience turns into formality, discipline and rigour you must follow. And doing it wrong severely hampers your process. JIRA/Confluence and Sharepoint are good examples of tools where the flexibility must be kept well in check. If you have Trello and a Forum, then people shouldn't have long discussion below their card. In fact I feel that Trello should just be cards with small notes, colors, a tiny workflow that makes clear how they move across the board, links to elaboration elsewhere, and not much else.

Note, btw that for brainstorming there aren't really good FOSS tools. Not like Miro and Mural, for example. Someone with good CRDT skills might start a great free software project there. Note too that within Social Coding we intend to start a federated Ideation Hub project that in time might venture here.

[..] I already gleaned the interest of Bonfire here, and I find that exciting. Btw, Ink&Switch / Automerge started some investigation here with Pushpin: https://automerge.github.io/pushpin/

Btw, I made a small investigation of collaborative whiteboard FOSS on Fediverse Town, because of Mural, besides being proprietary, needing an account to even view our little brainstorm.

Later on in the chat:

Regarding brainstorming. You have to ask the question what is the purpose, and how can or can't you use your existing tools for it. This matrix room was mentioned. There's a ton of ideas being mentioned, and many I want to follow up on later.. if I manage to find them and have the willpower to scroll up 20 miles. On Fediverse Foundation we we were all unknown people brainstorming on ideas for an incorporated foundation with no handholds, direction, topics as yet. The thread became TL;DR before it even started.

I agree Miro and Mural can feel bloated. But the core feature is an unlimited canvas that does not restrict your creativity, so everyone has space to write stuff. If you keep it simple and support just sticky notes-like stuff, they can be 'idea hints' and topics to then elaborate elsewhere.

### Kanban, brainstorming, whiteboarding free software Posted something [in Bonfire chatroom](https://matrix.to/#/!ABozkEKNaMIXXXCooU:matrix.org/$97zkoV9ihJZb696aFZLaQDCD0BXjjfNBjtr6QAQ0zUI?via=matrix.org&via=gottsnack.net&via=matrix.tcit.fr) on Kanban / Brainstorming tools (where use of Trello was mentioned): > I've used a variety of tools myself. The issue I have with Trello (and many tools in general) is that they go far beyond an intuitive set of use cases and start to be a "one-stop shop" bag of features that kills the UX. So then it becomes more and more vital to manage the processes to still be productive. Tool convenience turns into formality, discipline and rigour you must follow. And doing it wrong severely hampers your process. JIRA/Confluence and Sharepoint are good examples of tools where the flexibility must be kept well in check. If you have Trello and a Forum, then people shouldn't have long discussion below their card. In fact I feel that Trello should just be cards with small notes, colors, a tiny workflow that makes clear how they move across the board, links to elaboration elsewhere, and not much else. > > Note, btw that for brainstorming there aren't really good FOSS tools. Not like Miro and Mural, for example. Someone with good CRDT skills might start a great free software project there. Note too that within Social Coding we intend to start a federated [Ideation Hub](https://coding.social/ecosystem/projects/ideationhub/) project that in time might venture here. > > [..] I already gleaned the interest of Bonfire here, and I find that exciting. Btw, Ink&Switch / Automerge started some investigation here with Pushpin: https://automerge.github.io/pushpin/ > > Btw, I made a [small investigation](https://fediverse.town/t/fediverse-foundation-lets-get-serious/299/35?u=aschrijver) of collaborative whiteboard FOSS on Fediverse Town, because of Mural, besides being proprietary, needing an account to even view our little brainstorm. Later on [in the chat](https://matrix.to/#/!ABozkEKNaMIXXXCooU:matrix.org/$eUk1FlBGA1FbjISBVQGrVAVUb9ldvCjbt-IEiKtTsB8?via=matrix.org&via=gottsnack.net&via=matrix.tcit.fr): >Regarding brainstorming. You have to ask the question what is the purpose, and how can or can't you use your existing tools for it. This matrix room was mentioned. There's a ton of ideas being mentioned, and many I want to follow up on later.. if I manage to find them and have the willpower to scroll up 20 miles. On Fediverse Foundation we we were all unknown people brainstorming on ideas for an incorporated foundation with no handholds, direction, topics as yet. The thread became TL;DR before it even started. > >I agree Miro and Mural can feel bloated. But the core feature is an unlimited canvas that does not restrict your creativity, so everyone has space to write stuff. If you keep it simple and support just sticky notes-like stuff, they can be 'idea hints' and topics to then elaborate elsewhere.
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Reference: SocialCoding/discussion#3
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