Translations #1

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opened 3 years ago by hw · 23 comments
hw commented 3 years ago
Owner

It would be good to have translations of the most important documents and changes.

It would be good to have translations of the most important documents and changes.
hw commented 3 years ago
Poster
Owner
Most important the bylaws ("Satzung"): https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/org/src/branch/master/Satzung.md

Would it be adequate to run it though machine translation and tidy up the result? I could do that for English. Would you consider these a legally binding document though? If so, you may need lawyers capable of checking the translations to make sure they faithfully represent the legal terms in the target language.

Would it be adequate to run it though machine translation and tidy up the result? I could do that for English. Would you consider these a legally binding document though? If so, you may need lawyers capable of checking the translations to make sure they faithfully represent the legal terms in the target language.
hw commented 3 years ago
Poster
Owner

Would definitely be a good start. An added paragraph might be helpful that explains the process. Legally binding is only the German text (as this is the one registered with authorities). We should state this too.

Would definitely be a good start. An added paragraph might be helpful that explains the process. Legally binding is only the German text (as this is the one registered with authorities). We should state this too.

Was this ever done? If so, where might I find the English translation of the bylaws?

Was this ever done? If so, where might I find the English translation of the bylaws?
Owner

@ubuntourist

Unfortunately no.

I think this is pretty important, but even if we do (we should!), then the German version will be the one which is legally binding and the English will be only a best-effort translation.

Anyone feeling confident in English and German?

@ubuntourist Unfortunately no. I think this is pretty important, but even if we do (we should!), then the German version will be the one which is legally binding and the English will be only a best-effort translation. Anyone feeling confident in English and German?

@ashimokawa

Yeah, I understood the whole "legally binding" deal, but, since I don't know German, it's largely a matter of both curiousity, and, as much as I'm able, being able to play nice and respect the rules, method of internal governance, etc.

And, even possibly -- though highly unlikely -- be able to contribute improvements or offer amendment suggestions, that could then be translated back into German and become newly legally binding.

@ashimokawa Yeah, I understood the whole "legally binding" deal, but, since I don't know German, it's largely a matter of both curiousity, and, as much as I'm able, being able to play nice and respect the rules, method of internal governance, etc. And, even possibly -- though highly unlikely -- be able to contribute improvements or offer amendment suggestions, that could then be translated back into German and become newly legally binding.
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

@ubuntourist : the last time I tried automatic translation tools were not that bad on legalese, I also tried the bylaws and the translations were at least not completely misleading.

Totally happy to help improving and clarifying whenever anybody starts this effort!

@ubuntourist : the last time I tried automatic translation tools were not that bad on legalese, I also tried the bylaws and the translations were at least not completely misleading. Totally happy to help improving and clarifying whenever anybody starts this effort!

If someone was to run the German bylaws through a machine translator and tidy up the grammar, where would you like the resulting text posted? On the wiki somewhere?

If someone was to run the German bylaws through a machine translator and tidy up the grammar, where would you like the resulting text posted? On the wiki somewhere?

You can make a pull request

You can make a pull request

Thinking of an Italian translation, would it be ok to create a Satzung-it.md file?

Thinking of an Italian translation, would it be ok to create a `Satzung-it.md` file?
Owner

@steko

Sure, that would be great! 👍

@steko Sure, that would be great! :+1:
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

Translations of the landing page/home screen would be great as well! https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/build-deploy-gitea/src/branch/master/etc/gitea/templates/home.tmpl

Translations of the landing page/home screen would be great as well! https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/build-deploy-gitea/src/branch/master/etc/gitea/templates/home.tmpl
Collaborator

@hw still open? I hereby assign myself to translate the document to English and see if I can provide an understandable French version. I also propose to rename the file names so people know what's inside. Is this okay or are the file names legally required e. g. because they are linked on too many places?

(Satzung.md → bylaws-de.md etc)

@hw still open? I hereby assign myself to translate the document to English and see if I can provide an understandable French version. I also propose to rename the file names so people know what's inside. Is this okay or are the file names legally required e. g. because they are linked on too many places? (Satzung.md → bylaws-de.md etc)
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

yes!

yes!
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

What about a folder structure like:

/<doc1>.md
/<doc2>.md
/<doc3>.md
/en/<doc1>.md
/en/<doc2>.md
/en/<doc3>.md
/it/<doc1>.md
/it/<doc2>.md
/it/<doc3>.md
/es/<doc1>.md
/es/<doc2>.md
/es/<doc3>.md
[...]
What about a folder structure like: ```raw /<doc1>.md /<doc2>.md /<doc3>.md /en/<doc1>.md /en/<doc2>.md /en/<doc3>.md /it/<doc1>.md /it/<doc2>.md /it/<doc3>.md /es/<doc1>.md /es/<doc2>.md /es/<doc3>.md [...] ```
Collaborator

Should the root contain the legally binding documents or should I also create a de/ folder?
I'd say we should also translate the Terms of Use into German etc ...

I like the structure. I already created a fork and started working on the bylaws, I'll apply the structure and continue these days.

I propose tracking the progress of that in my fork, so feel free to check for spelling and improve stuff after next week. I'll finally (rebase and) squash the work before creating a PR.

Should the root contain the legally binding documents or should I also create a de/ folder? I'd say we should also translate the Terms of Use into German etc ... I like the structure. I already created a fork and started working on the bylaws, I'll apply the structure and continue these days. I propose tracking the progress of that in my fork, so feel free to check for spelling and improve stuff after next week. I'll finally (rebase and) squash the work before creating a PR.
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

Should the root contain the legally binding documents or should I also create a de/ folder?

Yes, this should be the source documents (in whatever language the source document is maintained).

I'd say we should also translate the Terms of Use into German etc ...

Yes, this should be part of the de/-folder then?

> Should the root contain the legally binding documents or should I also create a de/ folder? Yes, this should be the source documents (in whatever language the source document is maintained). > I'd say we should also translate the Terms of Use into German etc ... Yes, this should be part of the `de/`-folder then?
Collaborator

Okay. I'll try and see if symlinking the docs works fine, so we could have complete folders for each language then ...
Update: Symbolic links sadly do not contain an option to follow them. I created an issue at Gitea.
Also creating a README.md which tracks the progress of translations and gives some hints etc ...

Hmm, is it already a change of the bylaws if we add a note about the translations to it? Because I fear that refering to the original German version in the footer may not make it obvious that there are translations available but linking the unofficial English translation in the footer may lead to confusion and is legally not recommended I guess.

I'd also recommend to rename all files to english names (Satzung.md → bylaws.md) which does not change the content but make it easier to understand what's inside the box :)

Okay. I'll try and see if symlinking the docs works fine, so we could have complete folders for each language then ... *Update: Symbolic links sadly do not contain an option to follow them. I created an issue at Gitea.* Also creating a README.md which tracks the progress of translations and gives some hints etc ... Hmm, is it already a change of the bylaws if we add a note about the translations to it? Because I fear that refering to the original German version in the footer may not make it obvious that there are translations available but linking the unofficial English translation in the footer may lead to confusion and is legally not recommended I guess. I'd also recommend to rename all files to english names (Satzung.md → bylaws.md) which does not change the content but make it easier to understand what's inside the box :)
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

Hmm, is it already a change of the bylaws if we add a note about the translations to it? Because I fear that refering to the original German version in the footer may not make it obvious that there are translations available but linking the unofficial English translation in the footer may lead to confusion and is legally not recommended I guess.

we might redirect depending on language settings in the footer template maybe? Aternatively a TOC with directory of all translations?

> > Hmm, is it already a change of the bylaws if we add a note about the translations to it? Because I fear that refering to the original German version in the footer may not make it obvious that there are translations available but linking the unofficial English translation in the footer may lead to confusion and is legally not recommended I guess. we might redirect depending on language settings in the footer template maybe? Aternatively a TOC with directory of all translations?
Collaborator

Is it possible to modify the original bylaws file without changing its content, like adding an English note to the translated versions on top of it or even correcting typos?

Is it possible to modify the original bylaws file without changing its content, like adding an English note to the translated versions on top of it or even correcting typos?
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

Bylaw paragraph §12 (8) allows minor redactional, as well as minor changes required by authorities. Codeberg e.V. members have to be informed. Please see the bylaw text for details.

Bylaw paragraph §12 (8) allows minor redactional, as well as minor changes required by authorities. Codeberg e.V. members have to be informed. Please see the bylaw text for details.
hw commented 2 years ago
Poster
Owner

adding an English note to the translated versions on top of it

This is surely possible outside the actual bylaw text.

> adding an English note to the translated versions on top of it This is surely possible outside the actual bylaw text.

Update: Symbolic links sadly do not contain an option to follow them. I created an issue at Gitea.

i hear many years ago this was due the stupid compatibility with windos git repos.. at client site..

> *Update: Symbolic links sadly do not contain an option to follow them. I created an issue at Gitea.* i hear many years ago this was due the stupid compatibility with windos git repos.. at client site..
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