2022-10-gitea-codeberg-future #28

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fnetX wants to merge 6 commits from (deleted):2022-10-gitea-codeberg-future into main
Owner

Reopen of #27.

Reopen of #27.
fnetX added 3 commits 2022-10-26 11:56:24 +00:00
fnetX added 1 commit 2022-10-26 12:01:17 +00:00
Gusted reviewed 2022-10-26 12:07:36 +00:00
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There are also a few positive reactions on social media.
We all have questions in our head and ask the Gitea team to clear them up.
Owner

Not the Gitea team, but the Gitea company. I'm not even sure who is involved, we only know that Lunny and Techknowlogick is involved (Two of three Gitea owners).

Not the Gitea team, but the Gitea company. I'm not even sure who is involved, we only know that Lunny and Techknowlogick is involved (Two of three Gitea owners).
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
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If the announced changes to Gitea really help bring the project forward,
we wish them all the best,
however asking them to stay independent and open, avoid relations to cryptocurrency
Owner

This doesn't read smoothly.

This doesn't read smoothly.
Author
Owner

Had another attempt at it.

Had another attempt at it.
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
puppe reviewed 2022-10-26 12:09:11 +00:00
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since the (to us somewhat surprising) [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/)
which essentially seems to announce heavy coupling of Gitea and a new-founded for-profit company.
Although this move was done by the maintainers,
it seems not to have [everyone aborad](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33341587).
First-time contributor

There is zero evidence that this is anyone who was previously involved with Gitea. It is literally a random comment on Hacker News.

There is zero evidence that this is anyone who was previously involved with Gitea. It is literally a random comment on Hacker News.
Author
Owner

I'll drop the link.

However, your claim is not true. dachary is a very active member, although not that deep into the Gitea team, he is contributing code regularly, especially in the context of forge federation.

I'll drop the link. However, your claim is not true. dachary is a very active member, although not that deep into the Gitea team, he is contributing code regularly, especially in the context of forge federation.
First-time contributor

But that is not evident from the comment itself which is all that matters. A reader would need more context.

But that is not evident from the comment itself which is all that matters. A reader would need more context.
First-time contributor

I agree that this may not be the best comment to quote. Maybe this should be worded differently. What about:

Although this move was done by some of the Gitea owners, it was not discussed or hinted to the maintainers, even in the private chatroom where they discuss their daily work.

I agree that this may not be the best comment to quote. Maybe this should be worded differently. What about: > Although this move was done by some of the Gitea owners, it was not discussed or hinted to the maintainers, even in the private chatroom where they discuss their daily work.
raboof reviewed 2022-10-26 12:10:13 +00:00
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Authors: Otto (Codeberg e. V.)
Hello everyone,
since the (to us somewhat surprising) [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/)
First-time contributor

Should there be an empty line between 'Hello everyone,' and the first paragraph? If so also start with a capital 'S'. I would remove the 'to us somewhat surprising' interjection.

Should there be an empty line between 'Hello everyone,' and the first paragraph? If so also start with a capital 'S'. I would remove the 'to us somewhat surprising' interjection.
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
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Hello everyone,
since the (to us somewhat surprising) [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/)
which essentially seems to announce heavy coupling of Gitea and a new-founded for-profit company.
First-time contributor

They don't say the company is for-profit: the stated goals are to "support maintainers and the project". While it's of course a concern that the company will eventually put profits before the project, I think it would be better to remove the 'for-profit' marker here. Also I think it's 'newly-founded'.

They don't say the company is for-profit: the stated goals are to "support maintainers and the project". While it's of course a concern that the company will eventually put profits before the project, I think it would be better to remove the 'for-profit' marker here. Also I think it's 'newly-founded'.
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
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since the (to us somewhat surprising) [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/)
which essentially seems to announce heavy coupling of Gitea and a new-founded for-profit company.
Although this move was done by the maintainers,
it seems not to have [everyone aborad](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33341587).
First-time contributor

aboard

aboard
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
raboof approved these changes 2022-10-26 12:13:24 +00:00
raboof left a comment
First-time contributor

I like the changes, though there's still a lot of duplication in the post.

I like the changes, though there's still a lot of duplication in the post.
fnetX added 1 commit 2022-10-26 12:16:05 +00:00
Gusted reviewed 2022-10-26 12:19:09 +00:00
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We read the [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/),
which essentially seems to announce heavy coupling of Gitea and a newly-founded company.
Although this move was done by the elected owners of the project,
Owner

the elected owners

There's no evidence that zeripath is an owner or involved with the Gitea company. 🤷

> the elected owners There's no evidence that zeripath is an owner or involved with the Gitea company. :shrug:
Author
Owner

okay, I meant that those who did are elected owners, not that all owners had a part in this.

okay, I meant that those who did are elected owners, not that all owners had a part in this.
Owner

Ah, that wasn't clear...

Ah, that wasn't clear...
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
First-time contributor

@fnetX Thank you very much for your effort in writing this. I still think it is a mistake to put something out now. And if you want to put something out now, this is still too long and too much stream-of-thought. It touches on too much which we can only speculate about. This is nothing that can be fixed by me pointing something out here or there that could be changed.

Who am I to offer any advice? I have not been contributing anything yet to Codeberg except my member fee. Today I am simply procrastinating on writing my thesis. So, feel free to disregard anything I say.

However, I must urge you one last time. This is a mistake. Take a deep breath. Allow time for others to comment first in the discussion in Codeberg-e.V./Discussion#71. Many may not be aware yet. They will come home to an exploding mailbox. Nothing we say today, cannot also be said a few days later. We do not have to add fuel to the fire. Let‘s take more time to think this through.

Edit: Yes, I sound like a broken record. And I will not comment any further today. The world will still be here tomorrow.

@fnetX Thank you very much for your effort in writing this. I still think it is a mistake to put something out now. And if you want to put something out now, this is still too long and too much stream-of-thought. It touches on too much which we can only speculate about. This is nothing that can be fixed by me pointing something out here or there that could be changed. Who am I to offer any advice? I have not been contributing anything yet to Codeberg except my member fee. Today I am simply procrastinating on writing my thesis. So, feel free to disregard anything I say. However, I must urge you one last time. This is a mistake. Take a deep breath. Allow time for others to comment first in the discussion in https://codeberg.org/Codeberg-e.V./Discussion/issues/71. Many may not be aware yet. They will come home to an exploding mailbox. Nothing we say today, cannot also be said a few days later. We do not have to add fuel to the fire. Let‘s take more time to think this through. Edit: Yes, I sound like a broken record. And I will not comment any further today. The world will still be here tomorrow.
ccoenen reviewed 2022-10-26 12:38:04 +00:00
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These concerns include:
- relationship between DAO and cryptocurrencies, blockchain etc (Codeberg has, definitely, a critic stance towards these technologies, but let's wait for clarification)
- possible impact of the codebase, especially if certan features become "enterprise only"
First-time contributor
-certan
+certain
```diff -certan +certain ```
Author
Owner

spotted this myself, too, I think it's included in the latest push.

spotted this myself, too, I think it's included in the latest push.
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
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- the effect on the Gitea developers, contributors and community, as well as
- influence on Codeberg and its public perception
There are also a few positive reactions on social media.
First-time contributor

that line is "both-siding". The positive reactions are not why we are here.

that line is "both-siding". The positive reactions are not why we are here.
Author
Owner

dropped it anyway.

dropped it anyway.
fnetX marked this conversation as resolved
fnetX added 1 commit 2022-10-26 12:38:04 +00:00
dachary reviewed 2022-10-26 12:40:38 +00:00
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Hello everyone,
We read the [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/),
which essentially seems to announce heavy coupling of Gitea and a newly-founded company.
First-time contributor

I propose to change "heavy coupling" by "takeover". The word is not too strong as the domain and the trademark were secretly transfered to a newly founded company. It went from a community led project with elected leaders to a company owned project with shareholders overnight.

I propose to change "heavy coupling" by "takeover". The word is not too strong as the domain and the trademark were secretly transfered to a newly founded company. It went from a community led project with elected leaders to a company owned project with shareholders overnight.
Author
Owner

I don't want to judge about this. If the ownership was transferred from some individual to a company where multiple owners of the project are involved with, this might not even be a negative change.

In the end, I still think that this might lead to a positive development, if the feedback from the community is heard and communication is done more transparently.

I'd only start speaking of a takeover if I have more evidence that it was the purpose of that move.

I don't want to judge about this. If the ownership was transferred from some individual to a company where multiple owners of the project are involved with, this might not even be a negative change. In the end, I still think that this might lead to a positive development, if the feedback from the community is heard and communication is done more transparently. I'd only start speaking of a takeover if I have more evidence that it was the purpose of that move.
First-time contributor

"which announces that Gitea trademarks have been transferred to a newly formed company, which intends to take over stewardship of the open source code."

IMHO we can be precise here, skip the guesswork, state outright what they said.

"which announces that Gitea trademarks have been transferred to a newly formed company, which intends to take over stewardship of the open source code." IMHO we can be precise here, skip the guesswork, state outright what they said.
Author
Owner

I tried to further simplify and rearrange.

Luckily, the dust I was presented with this morning has settled – to my surprise.

I guess it is because it's a business day. From my past experience, the social media notifications won't stop, and I still fear that the storm might still come.

I won't publish this with the amount of scepticism, because I don't intend to push my personal opinion in this matter. I especially tried to summarize the comments from the community instead of my personal opinion (that would be another blog article, then). So if the opinion is to not publish these concerns in a blog article now, I won't do it.

Yet I do feel we should be prepared and have something at hand, so here is my proposal, and I'm still looking for feedback to it if anyone has some.

I tried to further simplify and rearrange. Luckily, the dust I was presented with this morning has settled – to my surprise. I guess it is because it's a business day. From my past experience, the social media notifications won't stop, and I still fear that the storm might still come. I won't publish this with the amount of scepticism, because I don't intend to push my personal opinion in this matter. I especially tried to summarize the comments from the community instead of my personal opinion (that would be another blog article, then). So if the opinion is to not publish these concerns in a blog article now, I won't do it. Yet I do feel we should be prepared and have something at hand, so here is my proposal, and I'm still looking for feedback to it if anyone has some.
dachary reviewed 2022-10-26 12:46:24 +00:00
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Let me point out that we have had an awesome collaboration with most Gitea contributors in the past and the project in general.
We do not want to make hard cuts too fast, but rather look how the situation evolves,
and react accordingly.
We wish them all the best and hope they can find a sustainable way in agreement with their community of compensating their effort.
First-time contributor

I propose to change

they can find a sustainable way in agreement with their community of compensating their effort.

to:

they can find a sustainable way to be compensated for their effort.

There are a lot of unknown regarding what happened. Only one thing is for certain: whatever community existed a few days ago will have to be rebuilt. Wishing for an agreement after secret dealings have been made during the most part of a year is misplaced in this context.

I propose to change > they can find a sustainable way in agreement with their community of compensating their effort. to: > they can find a sustainable way to be compensated for their effort. There are a lot of unknown regarding what happened. Only one thing is for certain: whatever community existed a few days ago will have to be rebuilt. Wishing for an agreement after secret dealings have been made during the most part of a year is misplaced in this context.
First-time contributor

It's arguable that codeberg is a substantial part of the community, and I am not aware we were involved in this. This isn't to overstate our importance, by any means... but if the community was involved, I'd have thought we'd have heard of it before.

It's arguable that codeberg is a substantial part of the community, and I am not aware we were involved in this. This isn't to *overstate* our importance, by any means... but if the community *was* involved, I'd have thought we'd have heard of it before.
First-time contributor

Having started from the top, I would repharase from line 28 onwards:

"Codeberg and Gitea have had an awesome collaboration in the past. We understand and acknowledge the need to sustain their development, and wish them success in finding a way.

Unfortunately, the specifics of their annnouncement has led to a lot of questions and concerns raised in our own community."

  • no need to mention cuts (yet)
  • lead into the community thoughts section
Having started from the top, I would repharase from line 28 onwards: "Codeberg and Gitea have had an awesome collaboration in the past. We understand and acknowledge the need to sustain their development, and wish them success in finding a way. Unfortunately, the specifics of their annnouncement has led to a lot of questions and concerns raised in our own community." - no need to mention cuts (yet) - lead into the community thoughts section
dachary reviewed 2022-10-26 12:51:45 +00:00
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Also, there are some new Codeberg patches cooking,
and although only cosmetic, they should that we add our own unique touch to whatever upstream Gitea provides ;)
Last but not least, I want to thank the Gitea project and all its contributors for the great work they have done in the past, and will hopefully continue to do.
First-time contributor

I would replace

and will hopefully continue to do.

with:

and are looking forward to a continued and productive relationship in the future.

As using "continue" suggests a kind of continuity. The reality is that the company owning Gitea is a breaking change. It does not mean there cannot be cooperation but it will need to be re-invented.

I would replace > and will hopefully continue to do. with: > and are looking forward to a continued and productive relationship in the future. As using "continue" suggests a kind of continuity. The reality is that the company owning Gitea is a breaking change. It does not mean there cannot be cooperation but it will need to be re-invented.
dachary reviewed 2022-10-26 12:54:46 +00:00
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and although only cosmetic, they should that we add our own unique touch to whatever upstream Gitea provides ;)
Last but not least, I want to thank the Gitea project and all its contributors for the great work they have done in the past, and will hopefully continue to do.
We hope that Gitea stays independent and open, avoids relations to cryptocurrency
First-time contributor

I would replace:

We hope that Gitea stays independent and open, avoids relations to cryptocurrency

with:

We hope that Gitea stays clear of any relations to cryptocurrency

Gitea as a project is no longer independent as it is owned by Gitea Ltd. Advocating for avoiding cryptocurrencies is useful though.

I would replace: > We hope that Gitea stays independent and open, avoids relations to cryptocurrency with: > We hope that Gitea stays clear of any relations to cryptocurrency Gitea as a project is no longer independent as it is owned by Gitea Ltd. Advocating for avoiding cryptocurrencies is useful though.
jfinkhaeuser reviewed 2022-10-26 12:59:43 +00:00
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We read the [blog post of Gitea](https://blog.gitea.io/2022/10/open-source-sustainment-and-the-future-of-gitea/),
which essentially seems to announce heavy coupling of Gitea and a newly-founded company.
Although this move was done some people deeply involved in project,
First-time contributor

I'd rephrase and tighten this up until line 19:

"Although this move was made by people deeply involved in the project, it is not clear whether it has the support of the entire community. Codeberg, as part of said community, was not involved in or informed of this development.

We are evaluating the impact this has on Codeberg."

I'd rephrase and tighten this up until line 19: "Although this move was made by people deeply involved in the project, it is not clear whether it has the support of the entire community. Codeberg, as part of said community, was not involved in or informed of this development. We are evaluating the impact this has on Codeberg."
First-time contributor

I agree with @puppe to a large degree. I think while we need to work out an opinion (as I've argued), we can wait with making a statement, at least for a few days.

I agree with @puppe to a large degree. I think while we need to work out an opinion (as I've argued), we can wait with making a statement, at least for a few days.
circlebuilder reviewed 2022-10-26 19:42:08 +00:00
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Please be assured that our decisions will be made independent and together with our users and community.
Codeberg and Gitea are separate projects,
in terms of governance, userbase and even some technical bits.
First-time contributor

nitpick: user base

nitpick: user base
circlebuilder reviewed 2022-10-26 19:44:47 +00:00
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These concerns include:
- possible relationship between DAO and cryptocurrencies, blockchain etc (Codeberg has, definitely, a critic stance towards these technologies)
- possible impact of the codebase, especially if certain features become "enterprise only"
First-time contributor

nitpick: on the codebase

nitpick: on the codebase
fnetX closed this pull request 2022-10-31 20:37:15 +00:00

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